Anyone else have any suggestions?
Monday, December 15, 2008
Some Atheist Billboards I'd Like to see...[Holiday Edition]
All the hoopla over the relatively tame Atheist advertising this holiday season has got me thinking. If fairly weak statements like "Reason's Greetings" and "Imagine no Religion" generate this much press for the atheist movement, why not just ridicule the ridiculous and open up some real debate in America? To further that goal, here are a few Atheist billboards that I'd like to see [click pics to enlarge]:
Anyone else have any suggestions?
Anyone else have any suggestions?
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58 comments:
No Christian gives a what that we celebrate Christian holidays over top of Pagan ones. At some point in history this was seen by Christians as a sign of victory over well-intentioned, but untimately misdirected, paganism. Christians throughout church history have taken the good of Pagan holidays and discarded the bad. Rome may have gone a little far in merging Pagan holidays into Christian ones. To be fair, this is uneducated smut and, truthfully, any thinking man or woman will do a little research and realize your oversimplifying Church history 10x worse than the laziest Baptist. No honest to goodness Christian feels uncomfortable about this, thanks to the Holy Spirit, the holy comforter.
Undoubtedly, someone will try to use a few isolated verses of Biblical Scripture to "prove" something about this type of worship, giving absolutely no context, and certainly no honest context. This should persuade no one; the Bible is not a textbook.
Flame on!
thank you for your thoughtful post. i would say that more was done than simply merging pagan holidays into christian holidays - broad swaths of the jesus story were lifted in their entirety from other religions, including the shameless hijacking of judaism by tacking on the new testament (much of the story lifted from the story of the persian god mithras). this is no different from the mormons tacking their book onto the bible.
John,
So what you're saying is that it is okay to lie and change stories about your faith to convert people that you had just conquered?
And I also think you minimize the point of "celebrate(ing) Christian holidays over top of Pagan ones." The celebration of jesus on Dec 25th isn't just for ease of pacifying conquered people, the story of Jesus is actually a forgery of an earlier myth. Taking it a step further, if the entire basis of your faith is a book that is an amalgamation of plagarized stories and contradictions (slavery okay, not okay, kill the son, don't kill the son, etc.), any rational person would have to view it as nothing more that Aesops Fables part 2.
I am not arguing against the existence of higher power, only that man's description of that power is often whatever he finds most convenient at the time. And if that's the case, isn't all organized religion a pile of BS?
Billboards be primarly visual, not textual, and should be better typeset with larger, more readable text and simpler copy. If you can't condense your message to a few words, it doesn't work on a billboard.
In any event, I don't really see Christmas signage as having a religious message ... it's simply commercial signage produced for a our culture which is largely Christian, as such it may reinforce social norms but it doesn't create them.
By the same token, your atheism appears to be atheism in a Christian context. I doubt you get this worked up about Ramadan, for obvious reasons, even though Ramadan is much more of a pain in the neck for people who don't happen to be Muslim when they're in Muslim countries.
I think it's in a Christian context due to the location of the poster. We can certainly dissect other geographical regions and their culture but I hardly think it's anything other than obvious.
These would be decent in walking areas but not for vehicle traffic.
I really like the first one as many don't see beyond their own nose.
Happy Yule and everything else to you!
a typical American Christmas shows a wildly construed view of what it means to be a Christian and how Christians should celebrate the holiday. We as a people (U.S. in particular) have made Christmas out to be a holiday to spend. consumerism consumerism consumerism... You mean to tell me you can't celebrate Christs birth without spending it on things of this world? (where moth and rust destroy Matthew 6:19-21)We have made it to were consumerism is above all, including Christ. This is year round, not just during Christmas,... Christmas is just the cherry on top of the sundae.
Christmas isn't about buying anything, it's for one thing and one thing only, to celebrate the birth of Christ. In my book, you can celebrate that however you'd like.
Giving, when done from the heart, out of the joy Christ has given them, and not out of duty, is where it's at.
Personally, I like to express my love for Christ in loving the world...where it needs it most. I don't need to advertise what charity I give to, how much $, how much time, or to put it in a paper (as some companies do for PR...which disgusts me). It's how I show my love for Christ in what he has done for me.
"For all have sin and fallen short of the Glory of God" Romans 3:23
In realization of this verse, I am humbled. Humbled that He came to save us all, leaving Heaven to come and be beaten/killed for our sake.
I give because he gave,...Everything.
Nice troll on that first billboard. Too bad it's full of propagandic misinformation.
Could you please give a source for those "facts" about Mithraism? I don't mean the many websites with an obvious athiest agenda. I mean a good, unbiased, scholarly source. I have tried to find one, and have been unsuccessful so far. On the contrary, the unbiased scholarly works on Mithraism I have read so far have at best not mentioned these parallels, or at worst actually contradicted most of them (with the 12 disciples being the only exception I could find).
If you want to criticize Christians for just unthinkingly regurgitating what they hear without research, it would be beneficial to avoid doing the same.
Your treatment of Mithrian mythos is in almost complete contradiction to most of what's know about the mystery religion, which was very little.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithras
Wow, what deeply thought out comments. Seems as if you've touched a nerve. I just thought the signs were funny.
Atheists are trite. Sure you can point out that your religious counterparts are too, but then again your supposed to be smarter than they are no?
I guess my point is, other smart people have come to similar realizations but have moved on to something more important, like helping people. Get over yourselves and help figure out how to fix the problems created by the old myths.
You really think belief in Jesus and God are the issue here? Or is it the manipulative Pharaoh that manipulates the deep cultural memes to some self-serving end that should be the target of your ire? Attacking the victim is never a winning strategy, but it is an easy one.
1. Christianity: 2.1 billion
2. Islam: 1.3 billion
3. Hinduism: 900 million
4. Chinese traditional religion: 394 million
5. Buddhism: 376 million
6. African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million
7. Sikhism: 23 million
8. Juche: 19 million
9. Spiritism: 15 million
10. Judaism: 14 million
11. Baha'i: 7 million
12. Jainism: 4.2 million
13. Shinto: 4 million
14. Cao Dai: 4 million
15. Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million
16. Tenrikyo: 2 million
17. Neo-Paganism: 1 million
18. Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand
19. Rastafarianism: 600 thousand
20. Scientology: 500 thousand
The difference between an Atheist and a Christian...the Christian disbelieves in one less God than the atheist.
John -
How many people died for Christianity versus how many have died for paganism?
I'd wager that many more have died (still to this day) for Christianity's ruthless imposition upon so-called 'primitive' religions (to name a few: Native Americans, South Americans, Incas, Mayans).
The billboards are funny.
Kind of interesting that the cab and people are in the exact same location for each ad.
dastalker are you retarded? did you notice its photoshop? or did you believe the billboards actually exist?
ROFL ... are you christian?
These aren't just Atheist billboards - could qualify as Agnostic, Deist, or common sense...
I thought Horus was Jesus!!
If you really want to make a difference or statement in this world, why not actually go out and do something. Volunteer at a local shelter, donate to the poor ... do something, other than sitting on your arse and ridiculing others who have faith. I guess instead of doing something to help others this holiday, your contribution is to write controversial ads, for shock value to bring notice to a less than appealing blog. Merry Christmas!
Christopher,
I'm not going to get into whether Christianity influenced Mithra myths or whether these stories about Mithra existed pre-Christ. Because it doesn't matter. If we are to accept Christianity as truth, it is unsurprising that pieces of the truth had been mythicized prior to the actual fulfillment. The Old Testament contains prophecy for just about all the Christ story.
The point is to present the Mithra story factually as a predecessor to Christianity is dishonest. We can't even be 100% certain that the pagans didn't suppliment the Mithra story with the Christ story at a later date. The Christian Church fathers seemed to have believed this to be true, and they had much more first hand experience with this pagan worship.
Much of the paganizing of Christianity is thanks to Rome. I won't disagree with that. But to present this as fact is ridiculous and unfair. You seem to be more willing to take things on faith than I am, just so long as those things aren't Christian.
kasa obviously I noticed that it was photoshopped or else I would not have pointed out that everything else in the background is the same. Do you really lack reading comprehension?
Yes I am a Christian.
Chanel,
So that you know, a LOT of us atheists are active on the holidays in helping others. We do much more than pray for intervention. And I know that a lot of Christians do MUCH more than just pray.
While some are meant to offend, the majority of the atheist billboards and postings I've seen lately are meant to make people think. It's funny how many Christians are offended by the notion of questioning their brand of faith...of FREE-THOUGHT.
Mankind has been inventing religion for thousands of years, and the majority of Christians have the mindset that they're entitled to an unquestioning agreement from the entire global populace, as if they're the chosen people entitled to say and do as they wish despite their hypocrisy, self-righteousness, and ignorance to the scripture they subscribe.
We are emerging more frequently to say, "GET OVER YOURSELVES."
HazMattSoot,
Who said I was a Christian? Seems like you're the one being a little too judgemental ... weird because I thought it was the other way around? I never suggested that anyone, of any faith, regardless if you have any or not, donates or does any charity work this time of year. What I suggested, is that if anyone wants to make a difference or do something to make others "think", than do it in a way that makes a change, preferably for the good. Instead of demeaning another one's belief. Just like you have a right to voice your opinion so do those, who choose to celebrate their faith in God or whatever they believe in. I don't think it's appropriate to insult others just because you happen to not agree. Just my two cents. PS, anyone who types in caps, "Get over yourselves", sounds like the writer should take his/her own advice. :-)
Chanel,
I don't recall ever referring to you or your faith specifically...I was addressing to you the notion that people who don't believe in Christianity are doing nothing for charity. We do a lot.
Neither was I judging you...I don't know you. That last statement was a generalization to those who impose their beliefs unto the non-believers. You missed the point, or I wasn't clear enough in making it. I interact with these hypocrites of the highest form on a daily basis. Not by choice.
I know it's difficult to comprehend the tone of these black and white words on a webpage, but I'd like for you to reread my post...it is not hostile, nor is it personal. This is a controversial subject and it's easy to misinterpret, and I apologize for not making myself absolutely clear.
Happy Holidays!
It's not difficult to comprehend at all, in fact it's very easy to understand, it might as well been done in crayon.
There have been many, many other atheist who have made great arguments and points without having to resort to insulting & demeaning the other side. I think your post IS insulting and I'm not even religious. It could be against Christans, Muslims ... any religion. It's demeaning and you use these images for shock value. It's just sad that in order for people to try to make a statement or an argument, they have to resort to being nasty.
Like I said, there have been many others out there, who have really made a difference sharing their opinions, whether it's by a blog or in art form, with intelligence and respect. How are we suppose to make our world a better place, when we do nothing but insult the other side and make crude jokes, like displaying a picture of Santa Clause on a cross?
I don't even see it as a Christian holiday anymore because of all the extra stuff that's put into it. Certainly everyone takes the day off and gives gifts to each other regardless of their religion. However I find this aggressive Atheism not unlike that which it hates so much. I question my faith constantly but that is my problem. Whens the last time you questioned your Atheism. You line up behind Richard Dawkins as your preacher and Darwin as your Jesus and you don't think about the fact that Science corrects itself on a constant basis. One week it's okay to do this because science says so but the next week we find out it'll give you cancer. Atheism has a new definition - blindly follow whatever a scientist tells you because he is obviously right and there is no need to question that. But seriously just had to get that off my chest as I believe in Evolution as something that occurs but not something that started the world. There simply is no way we are going to get a definite answer to that one using the evolution theory. Flame on if you want it simply won't make a difference in the grand scheme of things.
The idea that Christians all know this stuff and consider it mostly harmless is total bunk. Religious apologists have this infuriating habit of arguing that most Christians are thoughtful, educated people who a) have considered all of these arguments and come up with well-reasoned theological counterpoints b) (ever heard this one?) find the idea of an invisible sky wizard who grants wishes infantile and offensive, instead favoring some sort of neo-Aristotelian organizing principle.
I was raised in the Catholic Church, perhaps the most regimented, education-based, theologically in-depth of all Christian faiths. I am here to tell you that we never heard any of this stuff, would have been decidedly alarmed to hear any of this stuff, and prayed every day to a bearded guy in a robe who lived in the shiny clouds and granted wishes if you behaved yourself properly. I recently took a college course on Catholic history and found plenty of "educated" Christians in their twenties alarmed to hear God hadn't personally authored the Nicene Creed, so don't tell me they all know they stole Christmas. It is nonsense.
As with any other large body of humanity, Christianity is composed largely of uneducated people with no instinct for scholarship or introspection who couldn't tell you where Persia WAS, let alone whether one of its mystery cults inspired Christ. Argue against these allegations if you want, but don't pretend they wouldn't matter. If people were willing to be convinced, they would destroy your church.
How about something simple, like a bible verse:
===
And Moses relayed the Lord's instructions, Numbers 31:17-8:
17 Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known a man intimately.
18 But keep alive for yourselves all the young girls who have not known a man intimately.
===
Good to know that god is looking out for his avengers.
Ok...I'm really not sure what you mean by..."my images for shock value"? What in bloody hell are you babbling about? Are you addressing the O.P. and owner of this blog...that isn't me.
"in fact it's very easy to understand, it might as well been done in crayon."
Apparently it's not that easy to understand, since you're plainly confused. Get a grip...I'm out. Last word is yours...I tried to be nice. HAPPY HOLIDAYS. (In bold. What does that say about me?)
It's not confusing, just sad. And thank you for the well wishes and Happy Holidays to you too!
I mention this post on my blog. Thought you might find it amusing.
Happy holidays :)
ahahaha Thanks Tech.
fulfilled prophecy :)
I don't understand why non-Christians spend so much energy mocking, commenting, and ridiculing a belief that they themselves do not believe in. Not just Christianity, but any other faith, religion, or idea for that matter (Atheism included)?
Does not believing in something void respecting it?
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays!!
"dastalker said...
Kind of interesting that the cab and people are in the exact same location for each ad."
OMG IT'S TEH CONSPIRACEH!
Genius. The post is about billboards he'd *LIKE* to see, not real ones you dolt.
Fraz- Maybe it's because so many are completely engulfed in religious doctrine and are encouraged not to question their beliefs. I don't necessarily feel that atheists are insulting Christianity, but are rather demonstrating that with a little bit of logic, a lot of things people believe in don't make sense. Many Christian faiths recognize the importance of evangelicalism, or converting others to their beliefs. Are we not entitled to the same rights because we are atheists?
That being said, I say make fun of people who believe that Christmas is about Christ. It can be about many positive things, not just consumerism, such as family and giving back. But it's definitely not about Jesus.
There is a problem with the first sign and its historical accuracy. The Persian deity Mithras was -given-the birthday of December 25th by the Roman Emperor Nero (or Commodus, I can't remember which. Pretty sure it was Nero) in an effort to blend his insane love of gladiatorial combat, where the Cult of Mithra was extremely popular, and Christianity. It is important to note that December 25th was Jesus's birthday BEFORE it was Mithras's.
Man, you know what, I'm not a christian, but I could care less if Christmas is celebrated or a nativity scene is displayed. People are so politically correct. Isn't letting every little thing bother you tiring? It must be.
Of course, Sam, that's assuming Jesus was even born...
Mr. Russ,
Moses, inspired by God, encouraged people to enact revenge against the Midianites. As an incentive, he told them that if they killed all the men, women, and boys, they could keep the virgin girls for themselves.
Instead of deriding my offering, please provide the context that makes this behavior okay. And if that context is biblical, let it be known that only holy texts could be used to justify enslaving virgin girls.
Hey I'm just pointing it out, it the Christians won't be accurate at least the Atheists should be. And Doc, really man. Jesus kicks some serious ass in terms of civil disobedience and generally good advice. Personally? I like the guy. Was he the Son of God? Nope.
"Instead of deriding my offering, please provide the context that makes this behavior okay."
Wait... you mean there's ANY context that would make killing all men and non-virgin women and keeping the virgin young girls for yourself 'OK'?
And you call yourself a Christian? You call Christianity a religion of "love" and "forgiveness"?
Hi Kry,
Please do not jump into a conversation without at least pretending to have read it first.
Tech - the bible verses quoted are from the old testament. Those of us who have read the bible, have been taught the bible, know that this is when God did indeed instruct an 'eye for an eye'. Mathew, Mark, Luke and John, feature the actual life and teachings of Christ himself, it is through his death that we now have a chance at forgiveness, repentance and finally acceptance into eternal life with our lord. Sending us Christ marked a distinct change in policy for God, no longer does he want 'eye for an eye', but instructs us now to forgive, to love one another. Don't quote from the bible until you actually read it, and understand it.
"Please do not jump into a conversation without at least pretending to have read it first."
Actually, you're completely wrong in that I haven't read it, but you would be right in that I misread you. I apologize for that.
However, I'm pretty sure someone will have a valid "context" for this, and then my post will apply. So I'll pretend it was preemptive warfare.
Hi Little Miss P.I.
Your assertion is essentially that God had a change of heart between the Old Testament and the New Testament.
First, I would like to wonder how this is related to the "eye-for-an-eye" principle. It certainly doesn't seem like a fair compensation for me. What did the Midianites do to deserve having their daughters raped by their war enemies?
Second, God is supposedly immutable. How do you reconcile this with your assertion that he has had, either by his own will or through Jesus, a change of heart?
How does ANY of this make the rape of little girls okay? Couldn't God, in his infinite judgement, have said "Don't do this, it's wrong, at least give them merciful deaths."?
Mithra was not born of a virgin in a cave he was born from a cave birthed out of solid rock as a full grown man.
Stop with atheist talking points and do some research
The Iranian Mithras had one companion / follower the roman mithra had two companions which represented sunrise and sunset. Mithras of course represented noontime. It is incorrectly assumed that there were 12 disciples based on a statue of mithras slaying a bull in which 12 people were watching. The statue happens to postdate Christianity.
Mithras sacrificed himself in battle for world peace but never died (hence he never rose again).
I would work on your billboard...
The first one is the best. But too wordy. To compensate, break the points up into bullets.
* Born of a virgin on December 25th
* His 12 disciples saw him as the Son of God
* Resurrected three days after death
* Inspired many copycats, including guess who.
* Lived 600 years before the other guy
His name? Mithra.
Still wordy, but easier to read. Maybe you can boil it down some more.
I think adding the 'copycats' part really drives the point home a bit more. You don't need the stuff about him being Persian and imagined imho.
I bet Mithra was Jesus Christ, part 0.
The feeling in the heart is the celebration. We know Christmas is to honor Jesus Christ's birth. <3
"Born ot"??
Oh... I get it! Wait. No.. no I don't.
I'm an atheist.
Just be careful not to shove atheist ideas down peoples' throats.
Otherwise you will just be dismissed as a Nazi.
Even if your goal is to promote something that is universally accepted, like peace... if you push it too hard on people, they'll just call you a Peace Nazi and discount what you're saying.
I've written a bit about the paganism/christianity similarities. Take a look if you're interested here. Mithras' disciples "formed an organized church, with a developed hierarchy. They possessed the ideas of Mediation, Atonement, and a Savior, who is human and yet divine, and not only the idea, but a doctrine of the future life. They had a Eucharist, and a Baptism, and other curious analogies might be pointed out between their system and the church of Christ" (The Christian Platonists, p. 240).
Cumont's "The Mysteries of Mithras", readable in full here.
Tertullian, a church father, wrote "The Devil, whose business it is to pervert the truth, mimicks the exact circumstances of the Divine Sacraments, in the Mysteries of idols. He himself baptises some that is to say, his believers and followers; he promises forgiveness of sins from the Sacred Fount, and thereby initiates them into the religion of Mithras: thus he marks on the forehead his own soldiers: there he celebrates the oblation of bread: he brings in the symbol of the Resurrection, and wins the crown with the sword."
Tertullian and the early Christians, then, were so painfully aware that their beliefs were so similar to those of the Dionysus/Bacchus/Mithras followers that they came up with an explanation - Satan himself created these stories before Jesus was born in order to confuse those who might otherwise become Christians
Another such Christianized site is St. Peter's Basilica, the Vatican Church. There are many tombs under the Basilica. These were discovered during a 1939 excavation. Some of the tombs found were non-Christian, and others were Pagan, but one bit of imagery found on one of the Christian tombs is interesting. This image depicts Jesus, but he is depicted as a sun god or "Sol Invictus," a later form of Mithras.
This one is perhaps the most strikingly Jesus-like, and depicts the infant Dionysus. This is from the 4th century B.C. . Also, From the Roman catacombs - Mother Isis with infant Horus
Far more prevalent than any other symbol in Christianity is the cross or crucifix. This is said to represent the cross on which Jesus was crucified before rising from the grave 3 days later. However, in the Acts of the Apostles, Peter says Jesus was "hung on a tree." St. Paul's letter to the Galatians says the same. The god-man Attis was also hung, on a pine tree (remember the pine cone imagery). The cross, according to Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy of The Jesus Mysteries was an important symbol in the ancient world. The four arms represented the four elements.
(The Jesus Mysteries, 50-52).
From The Jesus Mysteries: Dionysus as a child is given a cross as an omen of his fate - to be crucified.
Another symbol often used in Christianity is the Ichthys, or "Jesus Fish." The symbol was used by Christians to mark their secret meeting places or was used as a "secret handshake," or perhaps both. Christian reasons for the history of this symbol are that it represents Jesus' miracle of feeding 5,000 people with fish or that Jesus called his disciples "fishers of men." However, the symbol's history is much older and more complicated than that.
When Jesus helps catch a large number of fish in the Gospel of John, the gospel mentions that it was 153 fish. Pagan priest and mathematician Pythagoras and his followers regarded 153 as a sacred number, and the ratio of height to length of the shape is 153:265, which Archimedes called "the measure of the fish. When two circles of the same circumference are combined such that the edge of one touches the center of the other, we see the fish take form
Great topic! I love all the comments you stirred up. And, I love that someone listed Unitarian Universalists in the top 15 list of world religions! I thought we were over 1 million but I'll have to check the latest numbers.
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